For a Friend

[Longbow]

Too lazy

Summary: As the Shades prepare to move north towards Cride, they're ambushed by 60 scalziin. Hit once, hit hard, and retreat back to Cride. rockets, all sorts of grenades, bullets, etc.

Lot: what of your forces were in Yokutar?

[Longbow]

Also: Pyhrrus (r12 dragon) throws in a chain lightning for good measure, then teleports away...

[Gerk]

just for clarification, Nargoth, this happens as your shades begin grouping closer together before they teleport. this isn't stopping you from teleporting them, it's just a reaction to the fact that they're all grouping.

[Nargoth]

Also for clarification this is happening within a few hundred meters of the rank 15 wraith? and is this targeted at him or just the shades?

[Gerk]

if he's the one casting the teleportation spell, then it is in that range, yes. and no, not specifically around him.

[Graham Lot]

Longbow: Troop Listings Here
Assuming they're using a gate to get most of the way and then driving the rest, so they can be set up within a day.

[Nargoth]

As the shades began to assemble Nargoth noticed something a little way off. It was a dragon, and it had a rather large Aura... Then the first volley struck, Nargoth immediately summoned a hellfire howler near where the attack originated and the dragon sat. Another volley came down even as the tornado bore down on the attackers, and then no more. Nargoth continued to move the tornado after their likely path, but it seemed they had struck and run.

The movement of the shades had only been slightly disrupted and the attack continued with little change.

Summary: please just read it.

notes, Longbow my jammers are active by this point so the data we went over might not be able to reach back to Cride, you'll have to ask Gerk.

Also i have some bit of time before that null thing comes online so, yeah they still have their magic for now.

And the moment you've been waiting for... casualties... 25 normal shades, and 5 shock shades were unfortunate enough to meet their end.

[Z-hin'il]

Magroth's forces in the Doshtan had seen hardly any combat.

While they had been moving about, claiming land for their lord, they had met almost zero opposition, save the occasional town that needed to be taught a lesson on who's boss, but beyond that, not much happening.

Then the orders came to move north. They assumed that Longbow, Lord of Cride was fighting back, and that they may actually get to see some action. After a few days, they reached the border, and were poised to move in.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

On-board the Triton

"Sir, the enemy force has been located."

Z looked through L at the holo table before him. Units and estimated numbers were projected, and the terrain around them was forming as he watched.

"The satellites have all the data, sir. We have their position nailed down." An officer said at his side, tapping a few commands into the holo table.

Rippling one last time, the table held the image. The troops were being represented by small glowing dots, all in a position just south of Estshon/Doshtan border.

"Excellent." Said Z, still looking at the image. "Begin the satellite targeting uplink, prepare silos 1-5 for launch, and prep silos 51-151 as well."

"Right away sir." A staff officer said, rushing away to relay the orders. Z bent over the holo board again, pulling out a cigar.

Stepping back, he lit it, and waited for word to come that all was ready.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

The surface of the Triton suddenly began to move, as one hundred and five silo's began to open. Steam vented as the missiles were prepped to launch. Men rushed about inside the ship as orders were yelled, and munitions were being carted to the missile tubes.

Z nodded. "Fire all ordinance 51-151."

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

The troops were relaxing. It was dusk, and night was falling fast. With all of the recent victories, things were going well.

They weren't off guard, but they weren't expecting what was to come.

The ground suddenly exploded, and alarms began going off, and one hundred high ordinance missiles struck the encampment. Bodies flew, vehicles exploded, and men cried out in pain as they hit.

After, the men were shocked. What had hit them? And from where?

But it wasn't over. Far from it.

The camp suddenly exploded again. High yield warheads from the ICBM's struck next, one wave after another.

After five waves of dozens of large explosions, all around the camp, all was quiet again.

Summary: The Triton fires off six waves of missile attacks. The first is a bombardment of Air to Ground missiles, with a conventional explosive yield. They were fired in shifts as well to maximize destruction as well as allow time for the preceding warheads to detonate without affecting the next wave, etc. Next, five ICBM's (non-nuclear, warheads replaced with high yield explosives for a bigger boom) are fired. They hit one at a time. Got my targeting via Satellites if you were wondering.

[Graham Lot]

Via the CAA satellites, the only ones remaining, I would assume?

Well, you're the military person. If I have 17 THAAD Launchers, 35 PAC 3 Patriot Launchers, 32 THELs and 60 S 400s, what can I do against the missiles and how fast can I do it? These things obviously come with radar to detect missiles, and ICBMs take a while to arrive.

Also, the fire elementals will take a leaf out of Longbow's books and go near the missiles if that will be at all helpful. Using Channel means it can go in any direction I want at 5 m/s, so they can easily hover upwards towards later missiles.

[Gerk]

by the time they're near enough, it's too late for the fire elementals to help at all.

but i have no idea what those things you listed are, though i suspect Z might.

[Graham Lot]

I'd hope Z does. They're all real world stuff suggested by Nargoth from back in the days when he was working out a military for Novatainia. They also have wiki links in my orbat (so you can look them up there if you want).

[Z-hin'il]

Alright, I shall give you an overview of what your equipment is capable of. I shall address the issues by first describing what they specialize at and their chances of succeding, then how quickly they would be able to respond.

From what I understand from my readings on the PAC-3's, they are primarily an anti-ballistic missile unit. This meaning, they are designed to intercept and take out ballistic missiles (like the five I launched, for example). The same is with the THAAD systems, although from what i can tell the THAAD systems have a shorter overall range, but can intercept higher altitude ballistics.

Both systems, however are not very good at taking down aircraft, or air-to-surface missiles. Their primary role is taking down Ballistic missiles. This doesn't mean they cant, but their success rate at doing so will be significantly diminished.

The THEL systems you have (my source wasnt very clear on their capabilities) are essentially chemically induced lasers. This meaning, a chemical reaction is used to create a laser beam. They have tested it in real life, and had successes, but they were limited to rocket fire and mortar shells being intercepted (from what I can recall as well, Chemical lasers are eventually going to be used on planes as well for long range attacks). Technically speaking, I would think its possible to intercept a missile with one, but it would be a much harder task to accomplish, due to other variables that can affect the missile (they are much different from a standard mortar shell, the things that happen to missiles.). If you had a computer system with the THEL's, they could attempt to track and destroy the missiles, although I would have to say with limited success since its still an unrefined technology.

The S 400's are again, more so focused I would say on countering Ballistic missiles (you actually have an incredible defense against them, with all of these units, anticipate a missile strike like this?). I would say the same thing with the THAAD and PAC-3's, Limited success against the Air to Surface Missiles, but more against the ICBM's.

Now onto reaction times.

I would say that you would be able to effectively detect the initial waves of Air to Surface missiles. Your men are (I assume) well trained and prepared of such circumstances, and would be able to effectively deal with this sort of attack. However, considering the fact that the systems are not designed to take down the initial barrage of missile attacks, A good deal of them would get through, dealing damage to your men. Albeit, a decent amount would be intercepted.

Also, considering I sent the missiles in different waves (I will say four waves of 25 missiles each for ease) and the rapidness of the attack, I would say that the First two waves were hit the worst, but the next two got a lot more through, since reloading those things must be rather difficult.

After the first missile wave, You men i would assume be ready for an attack. However, given the confusion induced from the missile strike, and the casualties, Your men would probably only have time to intercept two, or Maybe, three of the Incoming ICBM's. Like I said, this would be due to the chaos caused by the first attack, and the need to reload the missile counter measures again.

Assuming you CAN get the ICBM's before they break up (at which point, they deploy the warheads, which are insanely difficult to intercept, its best to hit them while re-entering orbit before they break) then you could get them.

And yes, My satellites are CAA satellites.

And in regards to your fire elemental's, they would take out a few, but then again, there are alot of missiles. Which presents another problem. Given your large number of Ballistic countermeasures, there may be problems where multiple units would target the same missile to intercept. Not saying it would happen alot, but im sure it would.

Well, there you go. Hope it helps. =D

[Graham Lot]

It does indeed help. The only thing I thought different from my previous knowledge of these was that the s-400s were good AA. That was the purpose I took them for - so if for a future war you can suggest a better one, that would be great.

And I wasn't expecting a missile barrage as such; I just had these from a while back against Air/missiles in general. Conveniently, you attacked the force with all the anti-missile stuff

In terms of any more detailed than 'I use my counter missile stuff to counter the missiles', if there's much time between barrages, my IFVs and Hueys would start flying away from the site that's being struck with all the missiles, and once they were a safe distance, use the gate stuff to get the infantry out of the way. Of course, if we're talking 2 minutes between barrages, instead of 10 or 15, then they won't be organised enough to do that. The teleporters would also try and get people and things out, and they're trained to do that quickly - that's all they do. Also, my fire elementals would do what they can, and have no problem with sacrificing themselves in order to prevent damages to the proper units.

Would you like to suggest damages? You can see from the link above how many troops there are present.

[Gerk]

if i could make a suggestion, based on the descriptions above, i would think perhaps 25% missile effectiveness on the first wave, increasing by 15% on every subsequent wave (that is, if the waves are close together. if they are more than a minute or two apart, these numbers would be less.)

perhaps you could explain, Z, how a fire elemental would help in blocking a missile? it doesn't have any solidity to it, and i would think the missile would be traveling fast enough that the momentary increase in temperature wouldn't do much. but i could be wrong.

[Graham Lot]

Whatever help Longbow's dragons were are what I assume my fire elementals would be helpful with. Since they're both essentially the same spell.

[Nargoth]

all i have to add is my take on effectiveness

THAAD- designed as a mobile intercept for long range missles such a the big boys the US is afraid Russia could throw our way. They have the longest range (the T is for theater, as in theater of war, so yeah) umm patriots have been used against scuds and other short to medium range missles with great effect and aircraft.

my understanding of the S400 is its a Russian patriot, perhaps able to shoot stealth (atleast thats what other mirconationalists preached in the last war)

and the THEL use the laser to heat the explosive in their target causing premature detonation. so they should be effective against missiles as much as mortars, mortars are smaller and harder to target so i would think perhaps more effective?

To be honest i gave andreas this system ages ago as almost a direct counter to Extreme007's missile attacks during that last international war. So its sorta built for this.

Though again to be 100% honest the THAAD's probably rely on satellites to detect inbound missiles.

theres alot of info on THAAD's around and i remember reading a magazine about their performance exceeding expectations, but again its up to you guys.

[Longbow]

Z: what are you shooting at?
Cride itself, The scouts that ambushed Nargoth, or the scalziin in Jarus' territory? Or are you firing at Lot?

As far as I understand, this is happening in my territory right now:
1) Nargoth is invading Cride with shades
2) soon after Nargoth invades, Lot starts taking back Jarus' land
3) Z is attacking either me or Lot somewhere in my territory. after both of these begin.

I'll respond to each in turn, I just want a clear understanding of what's happening first

[Graham Lot]

Z's attacking me, who's probably a little below Jarus' land, in fact, but still within your territory, yeah.

[Z-hin'il]

Longbow: I am attacking Lot's forces stationed near your land (as he said). Sorry if I wasn't that clear.

Now onto the subject at hand...

Gerk, I beleive the attempt to use the Fire Elemental's was that they would channel their fire behind the missile to cut off the oxygen supply to the propulsion system (putting fire around the back of the missile). While this is feasible, I would say its hardy realistic in this situation, as the whole effect of the missile strike was to be a surprise. I'm willing to say however that after the initial barrages, they would be more successful. Is this correct in what they would do?

The time between the missile strikes would be short. Hardly enough for you and your men to get away. Albeit, some units at the edges of the attack may get away, but that hardly constitutes survival of the entire force.

In regards to the many many anti-missile systems you have: I admit, it is very impressive, and is very effective. However, I made clear that the missile types I was using were such; Standard Air-to-surface missiles, and ICBM's. The Air-to-surface missiles are not cruise missiles, or ICBM's of any sort, they have a much shorter range and less destructive power. The defense systems you are employing are (from what I garnered) mainly used for defense in larger scale ballistics. I'm not saying they cant hit them, I'm sure they are capable, but they are not designed to hit them, making the task much harder. I also suppose you have something there with the Laser Systems, But again I say its hard to hit things like missiles, and advanced systems are needed.

I am willing to concede you shooting down 3 or 4 of my ICBM's, But I also must endeavor to have one get past your defenses, considering the overwhelming number of other missiles (100 of them, mind you) taking up your radar space and causing confusion about priority targets.

Also, I beleive you are correct about the THAAD's, Nargoth. I read that they utilize a large network-ish system that allows them to more accurately track and engage the Ballistic Missiles.

Also, I rather like Gerks suggestion about an initial percentage and subsequent increases (debatable if you wish). However, I would prefer changing the numbers, to remain fair on the basis that your force was set up to counter this sort of attack.

How about 15% damage initially and 5-10% subsequent increases in damage? And then there is the matter of the one ICBM that I am pushing to get through.

Hup to...

[Graham Lot]

Can't you just give me a single number or overall percentage of damage?