Greetings from Verac

[Guido Zambelis]

Seeing as we've now firmly moved I thought it'd be best to pop in and say hello.

It is custom amongst monarchies that honours are exchanged, and I intend to continue that practice here. I trust it would be appropriate to invest the Emperor as a member of the nobility of Verac?

I would furthmore like to engage in a treaty of mutual recognition with especial provision as to our joint border, and I hope you will be willing to do so to.

So long as the honours situation is all OK then I'll return for a full state visit asap - take this as a preliminary phone call!

[Nicholas the Mad]

Hello Guido.

Unfortunately, at the moment we have no Lord General (who handles foreign affairs) but I'm sure a treaty of mutual recognition could be arranged.
Also, in what capacity would I be part of the nobility of Verac, and for what reason?

[Gerk]

yeah, we really need to get a new LG. damn, that's something i forgot about in the constitution, how to act when one of the triumvirs is not in office. oh well.

i believe a treaty of recognition would indeed be possible, even with the current state of our government, but, unfortunately, and i mean no offense, but our customs and constitution would probably not allow for the Emperor to become invested in the Veracan nobility.

[Andreas the Wise]

I'm happy OOC to organise the wording of a treaty. I'm probably going to be LG in two or three weeks (when the Al'Magroth/Graham Lot scenario is over).

I quite agree, Guido, that with your land move now formalised and settled, a treaty is important given that we are now neighbours. I assume a clause of non-aggression would be welcomed?

[Nicholas the Mad]

Would this be with a new character, Andreas? I guess heir counts OOC as well, so that's all perfectly legal. You organising the treaty is fine with me.

[Guido Zambelis]

Got any further with the treaty?
For example, Andreas is a Duke by virtue of him being King of Novatainia.

[Andreas the Wise]

Sorry Guido, was waiting to see what you said you wanted in the treaty before drafting one. I'll draft one now.

TREATY OF DUVYASH

We, the undersigned, do agree to the following:

1. That full recognition shall be extended to the other party of the treaty as a sovereign micronation; including over their websites, forums and MCS land; and claims of annexation by any third party shall be refuted unless it can be proved beyond reasonable doubt that the other party agrees to the annexation.

2. That each party has the right to appoint an ambassador to the other party, and each party is allowed to demand immediate removal of the ambassador at any time since arrival and with only a week's notice.

3. That full diplomatic immunity is extended to the Triumvirate of Gralus - Emperor, Lord General and Chief Justice; and to the Lord General's appointed Ambassador and to their accompanying retinue; and likewise full diplomatic immunity is extended to the King of Verac; the High Commissioner for External & Foreign Affair; and to his appointed Ambassador and their accompanying retinue. These diplomatic immunities shall extend to all future rulers of both nations and their respective delegates and ministers.

4. That both parties agree to not interfere in the domestic policies of the other party save for noting concerns raised via a note from the Ambassador.

5. That both parties agree to resolve any mutual disputes in a peaceful manner, with or without the arbitration of a neutral third party.

6. That neither party shall commit or condone an attack on the other, and will seek to share information in the case of imminent attack.

7. That neither party shall harbor, aid or otherwise support those that are willing to overthrow the legitimate government of either micronation.

8. That both parties shall remain open and accessible visitors from one another, barring national emergencies or other such security issues.
a. In particular, there shall be freedom of movement across our mutual border.

9. That both parties shall be given the right to extradition of those deemed criminal in either party. The detained individual shall be handed over to the authorities of the petitioning micronation and the other must comply with the petition within a period of no greater than one week.

10. That trade shall be opened between both parties for mutually beneficial exchange, and the economic growth of both.

11. That either party seeking to amend this treaty shall inform the other of this request, and that all amendments must be made with mutual consent;

12. That the cancellation of this treaty must be undertaken via a written notice publicly posted in both parties' embassies for a minimum period of five days before the annulment date;

13. That any deliberate violation of the aforementioned articles constitutes the cancellation of this treaty.

Signed:
FOR THE GRALAN EMPIRE
...


FOR THE UNITED KINGDOM OF VERAC
...

Here's a first draft. The Gralan Empire hasn't properly signed treaties before, though I believe we may have recognised some earlier ones; so I thought this an excellent opportunity to try and come with a treaty where all the clauses are actually meaningful, either in a practical or an RP sense. Earlier treaties I've signed have had all sorts of flowery language that amounts to nothing; so I haven't included that in this. But with that in mind, I'm very happy for comments from other Gralan citizens about clauses that should be added, removed or reworded; and of course, am open to possible changes from the honourable Veracoisan delegate.

[Longbow]

part 11
should probably state who of each nation is allowed to give that consent
for us, i think that woudl be LG
not a clue who for them
otherwise not bad

[Gerk]

well, the treaty should not be very constraining on our forms of government. as a nation, we decide on our own terms who is to give that consent. and i think we would respect each other enough not to take the consent of any random citizen.

[Gerk]

sorry for the double post, but i don't like clause 5. not that i plan to get involved in any violence with anybody, but the fact that the treaty forbids it at all is questionable to me. i don't really know how to reword it properly, it's not like we can say 'try to resolve things peacefully,' or 'you can't attack the other party without proper justification' - those are hardly proper legal terms.

[Andreas the Wise]

Since we have a mutual border, it made sense to me that at the very least, a treaty we had would say "We won't attack eachother." Remembering that you have to agree to international wars anyway, and that Gralus as a whole is moving away from doing international wars ever because they always fail miserably, a clause saying "We won't attack eachother, and will try to resolve disputes peacefully" seems appropriate. If we felt war was necessary, we could always invoke part 12 to cancel the treaty, and then go to war; or just go to war and part 13 would invalidate the treaty anyway. But while we have a treaty, and on the assumption we won't go to war, part 5 seems fine to me in the original wording. But I'm open to further discussion on the topic.

[Gerk]

yeah, sure, i guess that makes sense. like i said, i really can't say how we would word it otherwise.